Josh Katz and Mattia Bianchi on refining their palette at Carmel in Queen’s Park, north-west London
Although the two have been immersed in hospitality for some time, Carmel marked a number of firsts for them. It’s their debut project in this corner of the capital and it’s the first time they’ve produced an all-day menu, alongside now-firm favourites, such as flatbreads (the one topped with taramasalata, in our opinion, is particularly tasty). But there are traits that tie Carmel to Josh and Mattia’s previous ventures: a family-like spirit, Middle Eastern flavours and a spin on cauliflower, which you can find in all Josh’s restaurants. After cooking up his trademark dish with a new twist, Josh sits down with Mattia to talk about elevating their output and why the food they make at home is worlds apart from that at their restaurants.
Josh: “Carmel certainly has a different feel to Berber & Q. I love our other restaurants dearly – they’re like our kids! – but I felt it was time to do something a little more refined, a restaurant where we could serve really nice wine and beautifully plated food. Let’s say something that doesn’t play loud music under a dark railway arch.”
Mattia: “We really wanted to differentiate Carmel from anything we’d done before. We wanted it to have an identity that related to our other projects, but not close enough for comparison. As Josh said, everything is more refined here.
“He had the initial idea. I agreed it was a good plan to open a neighbourhood restaurant at the time. It was really exciting to be elevating an area by bringing a new kind of restaurant to it.”
Josh: “We almost opened a new place in central London. Then, after the pandemic, we changed our minds. We backtracked and ended up finding this spot, which ticked a lot of our boxes. It’s on a beautiful road and it’s part of a neighbourhood. We’ve been really welcomed by the local community. We get a lot of repeat customers who live nearby. It’s become a bit of a hub.”
Mattia: “This isn’t just an evening spot. You can come from breakfast, lunch, or for a glass of wine. In the evening, we can be a bit more fun with the music and ambience, though the food is a bit more sophisticated than in our other joints.”
Josh: “We were nervous about the flatbreads, which are a new thing for us, but people love them. The cauliflower shawarma, meanwhile, has always been a signature of mine. When we opened here, our then operations manager said we just had to have it on the menu. I was hesitant to do another cauliflower dish, so in the end, we compromised. We’ve switched it up a bit, changed the toppings and it’s been well received.
“We wanted the interior to feel refined too. We worked with MATA Architects on the design. Our brief was similar to the one we set ourselves for the cauliflower – we hoped for it to be a continuation of what we’d done before, so that you can tell it belongs to the same family, but a bit more grown-up. Something that was going to match the food we would be serving.”
Mattia: “And we wanted it to be brighter because we’re serving food all day.”
Josh: “Carmel means ‘Garden of God’ in Hebrew, which nods to my Jewish heritage. That idea inspired the aesthetic. The practice did a brilliant job, but we also filled the place up with plants, knick-knacks and things that make it feel a bit more lived in. We didn’t want the restaurant to feel sterile and soulless. That’s not our character: we wouldn’t want something super polished and sleek. It needed to be a little bit higgledy-piggledy. Mattia then channelled that into the music and atmosphere. He’s very good at reading me.
“When I’m at home I actually tend to spend my time cooking food that wouldn’t get made in our restaurants. Most people assume I cook with Middle Eastern ingredients all the time, but the truth is, so much of my work revolves around it that when I’m at home I’m eating anything but. It’s my only opportunity to make something different to what I serve at work.
“I used to make spaghetti bolognese on repeat, which sounds a bit boring, but I love the process of making a proper ragù and the wonderful ability of time to bring all those flavours together. I eat much less meat these days so I’m not making nearly as much bolognese as I used to. I love pasta though, and a simple sauce made right. I consider it one of my hidden culinary talents. Then there’s the ritualistic process of making a risotto, ladling in stock a little at a time. It’s a dish of care and love. And I will often make shakshuka on a Sunday morning, especially if I’ve had a few drinks the night before.
“I’ve always prided myself on making a great sandwich, too. I think there’s so much scope for creativity with a sandwich, far more than most might think. I love a proper roast on a Sunday too, with all the trimmings. I think it’s safe to say that cooking at home isn’t confined to any particular region or style of food – I have my restaurants for that.
“I also order a lot of takeaways. I love eating food that I wouldn’t otherwise get the opportunity to. I love Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Thai food. I’m a huge fan of all Asian cuisines, but Malaysian might just be my favourite of all.”
Mattia: “It’s similiar for me. Our food is inspired by the flavours of the Middle East and North Africa and I tend to nibble something every day when visiting the restaurants – quality checking obviously… But when I’m at home I stay as far away as possible from these flavours. I’m from Italy, so food from there comes naturally to me. Simple cooking and quality produce is what I generally go for. I like a bowl of pasta and a glass of wine. But one of my favorite dishes to make is Spanish tortilla – mostly for the flipping climax!”
“This is a take on our cauliflower shawarma, which, over the years, has become our signature dish at Berber & Q and Shawarma Bar. When we opened Carmel, there was heated debate within our team as to whether we should keep the dish on the menu. I knew we needed an iteration of it in some form, but felt that the time had come to reimagine it slightly and offer something new – and this is what we came up with.”
Serves 4
Turmeric butter
10ml olive oil
100g unsalted butter
20g shallots, finely chopped
½ green chilli, finely chopped
Small handful of curry leaves
½tsp turmeric
Salt, to taste
Tahini sauce
100ml tahini paste
¾tbsp lemon juice
80ml iced water
Salt, to taste
Pomegranate agrodolce
500g red onion, thinly sliced
2 garlic cloves, thinly sliced
1 bay leaf
30ml olive oil
30ml pomegranate molasses
1 tbsp water
½tbsp chilli flakes
1 tsp dried mint
Salt and black pepper, to taste
Cauliflower
1 cauliflower
50ml olive oil
1 tbsp pomegranate molasses
20g walnuts, toasted and roughly chopped
20g pomegranate seeds
1tbsp chives, finely sliced
Flaked salt, to taste
Start with the turmeric butter. Heat the olive oil and 20g of the butter over medium heat. Sweat the shallots, green chilli and curry leaves until softened, then add the turmeric and infuse for a few minutes. Allow to cool at room temperature, then fold through the rest of the butter. Season to taste with salt.
Next, prep the tahini sauce. Pour the tahini into a medium-sized bowl and whisk in the lemon juice, thickening it to a coarse paste in the process. Then slowly whisk in the iced water. The tahini will loosen in the process to a thick sauce, about the consistency of a heavy double cream. Season to taste with salt.
Now, for the pomegranate agrodolce. Sweat the onions and garlic with the bay leaf over medium heat in the olive oil until caramelised, for about 10-15 minutes. While the onions are cooking, combine and whisk the pomegranate molasses, water and chilli flakes. When the onions are caramelised, add the dressing, fold through and continue to cook for 1-2 minutes, then remove from the heat. Fold through the dried mint, check for seasoning and adjust accordingly. Keep warm until needed.
Blanch the cauliflower in a large saucepan of boiling salted water for 10 minutes or until tender to a knife but not overcooked, then refresh it in iced water. Set the cauliflower on a cooling rack to drip dry. Meanwhile, pre-heat the oven to its highest setting. Add the oil to a pre-heated roasting pan, roll the cauliflower in the oil and roast for 10 minutes, or until the cauliflower is charred all over. Then add the turmeric butter to the pan and put back in the oven for a further 6-8 minutes, basting the cauliflower every couple of minutes with the foaming butter.
Transfer the roasted cauliflower to a serving plate, season with flaked salt and spoon some of the excess butter from the pan over the top. Drizzle the tahini sauce all over, then spoon the pomegranate agrodolce on top, followed by a drizzle of pomegranate molasses. Garnish the cauliflower with the chopped walnuts, pomegranate seeds and chives and serve immediately, still piping hot.
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